I took this photo while sitting in traffic. I was struck by the juxtaposition of the No Trespassing sign and the “people accepted — lives changed” writing on the wall.
I wondered, “Which will it be if Mars Hill takes over that building?” Will it be no trespassing for LGBTQ people? Yes. Will lives be changed? Yes, but for the better? Not likely.
Will people be accepted? Not as they are.
And the chain link fence spoke to me of the chains that Mars Hill puts on their “gospel.” It’s not good news, not the way they preach it. It’s chains on people’s hearts and locks on the door of heaven for anyone who doesn’t fit their doctrinal model.
Jesus said, “You shall know the truth, and the truth will set you free” but the message of Mars Hill Church isn’t truth and freedom, it’s corporate cover-ups and people imprisoned by fear of retribution if they speak out.
Those of us who preach a message of inclusion and freedom and peace in Christ must be ready to speak out against any message of exclusion that comes to Spokane. We must be willing to stand up for the true Gospel of love.
The truth of the Gospel is that we are all sinners and we fall short of Gods standard which is perfection. We are by nature liars, thieves, adulterers, fornicators and yes for some homosexuals. Thus we have been enslave to sin through Adam and our own willing choices. With that said we are as Gods Word says slaves to sin. So the Gospel which the Bible shares is that Christ came to rescue us from the slavery of sin by living a perfect life to become the spotless and perfect sacrifice for our sins, thus being nailed to a wooden cross taking on the full punishment for our sin and securing us eternal redemption through repenting of our sins (lying, stealing, lusting, hating, fornicating, practicing homosexuality etc.) and puting our faith that Jesus Christ has died in our place for our sins.
We must take Gods word seriously and not add or take anything from it. We must not conform to the pattern of this world but be transformed by the renewing of our minds. The Gospel is offensive, as Jesus himself self “they will hate you because of me”. Our Savior was murdered because he wouldn’t listen to the popular culture, he wouldn’t shut his mouth when he spoke as the Father wanted. God is the one who defines sin not popular culture. Romans 1:32 “Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.” Is this you…
“ ‘Keep my decrees. “ ‘Do not mate different kinds of animals. “ ‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. “ ‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
“ ‘Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. (Leviticus 19:19, 27 NIV)
These verses are only a few verses away from the verse often quoted as being the biblical mandate against homosexuality. Should we hold these verses as mandates for our modern lives?
You are picking and choosing what you want to use out of the Bible to justify your acceptance of sin. There are other passages that refer to sexual sins that can not be ignored no matter how much you don’t want to believe them. If you have read the New Testament you know that and that can not be changed by the world’s changing morals. God does not change according to the world’s changing standards and if you believe that you are in serious trouble.
No one said that MHC shouldn’t be allowed here. No one is excluding MHC from Spokane. In fact, the opposite was said. Conflagrating the argument and misstating the article are not beneficial to the conversation.
Ok, I migrated from Facebook comments to here, because I know Tracy is lurking. 😉
My first question: “Ok just a question, no animosity or trying to be an ass, just curious if you’ve ever listened to a sermon from Mark Driscoll? Is that a fair question?”
You said: “Completely fair. I have not listened to a sermon. I have read their website and quotes from interviews Driscoll has done. Have I misunderstood his church’s stand on homosexuality? If I have, please point me toward the truth.”
My next comment was: You said:
“I wondered, “Which will it be if Mars Hill takes over that building?” Will it be no trespassing for LGBTQ people? Yes. Will lives be changed? Yes, but for the better? Not likely. Will people be accepted? Not as they are.”
I guess to me that’s not very inclusive. If someone said that of you, I’d ask them the same question.
You said: “Yeah, but, you didn’t answer my question.”
I said: “Is someone’s sexual orientation the litmus test for you?”
Ok, that was on Facebook, here’s my next question.
It seems odd to me to see Gay people using another’s position on homosexuality as the litmus test for being good, helpful or equal in ministry or mission. Wasn’t the stigmatizing of labeling others as being homosexual and the drive to ‘out’ someone’s sexuality, one of the main injustices that has been exposed as ugly by the LBGT community?
Eric, since when did you have to try to be an ass? Myself, I find it very easy.
Also, what did Jesus say about homosexuality? How much was he a product of his age, which really didn’t have much to say about it, keeping same sex sex hush hush amongst the good Jewish folk. The Gospel writers didn’t make much mileage out of it, either, being more concerned about excess flesh on Male appendages and OK foods and what days of the week to do good works, and such other rules.
All in all, maybe we should be concerned with racism, acceptance of neighbor, how to love enemies. For me, a thing is of moral interest if it has some real, physical harm connected to it. Some arbitrary prohibition doesn’t interest me – there are too many hurtful things out there, such as rejecting someone for their genetics.
Tom, in the tradition of Balaam’s dilemma…we often beat the very one we are supposed to hear a message from God through. I find that in all of these issues, there are those willing to listen and dialogue, some who are open to debate and others who just want to declare. I come from the evangelical side of things and for our part of the body of Christ, the issue of the authority of Scripture is the lynchpin in all this. Most conversations derail due to one or the other side failing to take the issue as serious as it is for Evangelicals. One can wave it off with disdain or bewilderment of try to listen. Now as to who is the ass in it all. That is sometimes difficulty to determine. I know there are many voices that say true things in a wrong way. So wrong, that I am compelled by the Jesus in me, to stand with those who may be wrong, but are right…in their wrong.
Eric, it’s my bunker mentality at work. Being gay frankly sucks in our current socio-political landscape, adding to that the attitudes of my fellow Christians against me, gets my back up.
Mars Hill preaches repentance and redemption in Jesus so they preach the gospel and so the Holy Spirit will be working in and through that church. There are already many churches in Spokane that preach similar messages about homosexuality, so why am I posting about MHC? Fear. And that’s not usually a great place to speak from.
You got me. I’m afraid.
I am afraid too Jan.
I am afraid that I am being driven into corners out of my commitment and limited understanding of the Bible.
I am afraid of being forced to speak and act in ways that contradict my posture towards myself and the example of Jesus that I try to follow.
I am afraid that I am being labeled as someone who hates in this day and age, when as a libertarian, I generally hate prying into peoples privates lives.
I am afraid that all the people I work with that are watching porn, cheating on their spouses, are divorced or remarry someone, get to feel justified in condemning other people or are silent a their public trials, for their sexual lives, while getting free passes on their in most evangelical circles.
I am of losing the opportunities of becoming friends with people like yourself, because of all the renewed culture war. I voted those dudes out, moved from ministry circles where they dominate the agenda and choose not to associate with circles that make secondary issues, primary. But…to no avail, everyone wants to pick sides and show jerseys these days.
And thank you for posting one of the most authentic and real comments. I am humbled by how you handle yourself.
Mat, I notice you include Homosexuality in a list of “sins’ or, I suppose, you’d say a list of immoral behaviors. Please explain how it belongs in that list, since the Bible doesn’t explicitly prohibit it (unless you cherry pick some Bibles that mistranslate Hebrew or Greek terms) and since it is a behavior that results in no greater harm than other sexual behaviors like heterosexuality while all the other members you have in the list result in physical and demonstrable harm to other people, like lying.
I am lurking!
And, because of my conversation and the excellent point that the other commenter on fb made, I have asked The Lurker to change the wording of my article. I went too far. MHC doesn’t preach hate, that I know of, but their message is exclusionary, so that’s the part that got changed.
I wish to jump in here because I am grieving that the ministry of First Covenant will be shoved aside for Mars Hill to move in, and that’s a real loss for the community around 3rd and Division.
And I am genuinely dismayed that Mars Hill is coming to Spokane. I have listened to some sermons, and what I hear is a strange obsession with the sex lives of parishioners, and admonishment given in patriarchal terms.
That one church has inspired so many survivor groups gives me worry. That one man is video-feeded into so many other gatherings also gives me worry. What I wonder now is what to do with worry, how to turn it into principled action.
And I also grieve for good pastors like Eric B who can get lumped into negative categories along with Driscoll, when they are as different as night and day, and the church he pastors which doggedly pursues genuine neighborhood renewal while MH draws thousands with its big box style.
(sigh)
Now worries Liv, my beard is too big and wild, I look too much like a liberal/progressive hippy, I vote for liberty, live in the hood, often quote from unauthorized versions of the bible and have too many of “those kind” of people as friends and church members.
I agree with you on those concerns and I would add, that I don’t think Jan needs to recant too much, I think her points need to be brought to the table. I do think us conservatives need to be grilled on all these issues. The thinking and apologetic presented by the groups she is worried about, should be pushed on, poked and reasoned with fearlessly. I would hope that work can be done without the spirit of vilification, accusation and demonizing. I hope SpokaneFAVS can be a part of that healthy prophetic voice and not devolve into another comments section of the local papers, where I cringe when I read the ugliness, the homophobic or anti-religious hounds biting and devouring. Dialogue and debate get exchanged for gladiatorial blood spilling and frenzy feeding.
Eric, I find you to be one of the humblest and motst filled with integrtity of any commentator on any subject I’ve seen. To me, you are a giant. I find that there are two, at least, kinds of evangelicals,, those who worship the bible of the one gGod, and those who worship the one God of the Bible. I’ve always found you in the latter group. Jesus valued the law so much he fulfilled it, but was not a slave to it. He realized that it was made for humans, not humans made for the law. He elevated humankind, not the law, believing that the law was a valuable guide but not absolute rule. I find you seem to follow him there. I wish I would do the same.
Tom, thank you for the very kind words, I truly appreciate you taking the time to encourage me. I try to put into practice:
Proverbs 15: 1-2, 4
A tender answer turns away rage,
but a prickly reply spikes anger.
2 The words of the wise extend knowledge,
but foolish people utter nonsense.
4 A word of encouragement heals the one who receives it,
but a deceitful word breaks the spirit.
I try to be at peace with everyone if it is possible. I figure if Jesus could pick Judas as a disciple, put him in charge of the money a man he said was a ‘son of the devil’…we should be able to handle each other.
If what you heard ” is a strange obsession with the sex lives of parishioners,” you were not listening to Mars Hill. Mars Hills sermons have to do with the Bible. Presently the book of Acts is what the sermons have been about. I think you would be better served to have some self reflection on the statement you made. You may be opposed to Mars Hill but don’t make things up that are not true. If what you said is true prove it when was that sermon. It should be easy to find since all of the sermons are on-line and available for anyone to listen to for free. Please prove me wrong.
Dave, I am sure if you follow MD, you are quite aware of the series on the Song of Solomon, his book on marriage and some of the stories that have circulated from his sermons as documented and referenced here: http://barthsnotes.com/2009/06/27/mark-driscoll-slammed-by-baptist-press-over-sex-teaching/
“In recounting the story about the man who started coming to Driscoll’s church because his wife began performing oral sex:]
She [the wife] says, “I’ve never performed oral sex on my husband. I’ve refused to.” I said, “You need to go home and tell your husband that you’ve met Jesus and you’ve been studying the Bible, and that you’re convicted of a terrible sin in your life. And then you need to drop his trousers, and you need to serve your husband. And when he asks why, say, ‘Because I’m a repentant woman. God has changed my heart and I’m supposed to be a biblical wife.’” She says, “Really?” I said, “Yeah. First Peter 3 says if your husband is an unbeliever to serve him with deeds of kindness.” [Laughter from audience] How many men would agree, that is a deed of kindness. He doesn’t want tracts. Those won’t do anything. What we’re talking about here could really help.”
I think that comment is enough to give some listeners or critics something to talk about don’t you think?
That bwas latter proved to have never happen a story made up and false. No one has ever been able to locate this individual to confirm this story. If you have confirmation I would be willing to hear it but at this time it has never been confirmed as the truth.
Driscoll removes Scottish Sermon from his website:
“…the content of this sexually explicit sermon has been removed from the Mars Hill website. Mark Driscoll writes:
“I received two emails from an older pastor whom I respect very much. In love, he brought to my attention a piece of content from me online that some of my critics have picked up on. It was a message I did out of the country a few years back on the more controversial sections of the Song of Songs. To be honest, I was unaware the content had been posted on The Resurgence. Apparently it was from 2007, and the file was posted about a month ago as part of clearing a backlog of content. Thankfully, I got to preach the entirety of the Song of Songs at the end of 2008 and did a better job with the text than I had done previously. Subsequently, I would commend that content if you are interested in studying the Song of Songs. Allegedly, some of my critics were concerned by the older content, and I think there is wisdom in some of their concerns. So we have pulled that content.”
http://www.driscollcontroversy.com/?page_id=105
The comment is so wrong, I would think, he’d respond, since he responds to so much. Do you have anything that says it’s false? I couldn’t find anything saying it wasn’t true? No rebuttal, cry of libel, or a refutation by supporters.
So he goes back and changes a sermon that the Lord tells him is less than what the Lord wants and that is wrong? Do you not make corrections and changes when the Lord commands. The Lord also tells us that when we sin and come up short of His commands and ask for forgiveness that it is forgiven and forgotten forever can you do no less?
Dave, I’ve always stood up for Mark when he’s been unjustly attacked. My link to the comment was in response to your assertion that people were being unfair in their concerns about his focus and handling on some sexual matters. I think one has to be objective in both criticisms and support.
Mars Hill is coming to Spokane because they felt called by God/Jesus to come to Spokane. The final judge on all of us will be Jesus Christ. We are all sinners and all need to repent and ask for forgiveness. Many of the comments about Mars Hill come from rumors and people who were dissatisfied with the church. Should we believe all the stories and rumors we have heard about gay people? No and neither should you believe all the rumors and stories you hear about Mars Hill. The great commission given by Christ to his followers was to spread the gospel without changing or adding to it. It will be Jesus who will judge each of us as to whether we preached the truth or we preached what the world wanted the truth to be. The truth is no different today than when Christ walked on this earth, changing times and changing worldly standards do not change the word of God. You are the only one responsible for your salvation and you will be judged only for your actions not mine, not Mars Hill and remember .the judgement you wish for someone else may be the judgement you receive. May the word of the Lord lead you to eternal life with Him! Praise Jesus it is all about Him!
I really know nothing about Mark Driscoll or Mars Hill, probably showing my ignorance here but I really don’t care either. I have “heard” things but am not sure what to believe. As for me… I have enough fish to fry already and things to keep me and two other people busy as well. I would hope ALL churches are open to the gospel of love and inclusiveness that Jesus taught and that after 2000 years we should expect that things may have changed just a little from a social secular standpoint. Bottom line is we Christians have been arguing about sex for the last 30+ years and the number of “active” Christians in the USA has dropped significantly during that time, probably lots more reasons for the decline but it hasn’t helped bring people in either.
One of the things that I love about Spokane FAVS is the rare opportunity it provides for actual dialogue!
I’m enjoying the opportunity to watch Jan (a personal friend) and Eric (a Faceabook “friend” who I suspect I’d enjoy meeting) push gently back-and-forth around such issues as this one. They keep it respectful – hey, they know where each other “lives,” after all – and honor each other’s differences.
I personally am more on Jan’s “side” of the scriptural thing (though at times I want to smack both of you over that >almost< proof-texting business), yet there’s a large streak of the progressive/almost-libertarian in me, too. Several good points from Alan and Liv, too. Here’s the place I get crossed-up over such a issue: Being in Idaho – being in By-Gawd ‘Merica! – I tend to twitch every time somebody uses the word “Freedom.” I am a solid advocate of a culturally-sensitive postmodern understanding of LGBTq persons as being in no way in “violation” of anything in the Bible. All religious “readings” aside, there is NO excuse for any governmental denial of full rights, including marriage, for LGBTq people. But where in the Bible or in our appropriate governmental documents does it say that my personal belief in the Absolute Correctness of my own understanding obligates (or encourages) me to insist that someone else’s advocating their own differing viewpoint ought not be permitted? Yet short of advocating My Own Theocracy (Cool! ), how can any of us justify opposing Mars Hill teaching their views? Sure: diagree with their viewpoint, counter-advocate, all that. But it would seem that debating their “right” to advocate their views is another matter entirely, one that I think is constitutionally protected. They don’t want bearded white guys in their sanctuary? Much as that might offend Eric and me, isn’t that their prerogative? I don’t want aggressive homophobes in my church? Must I tolerate their disruptive presence? I’m no constitutional lawyer, but I do believe that there are no governmental proscriptions against Mars Hill teaching what they call “Christianity” in whatever form they choose. I also know of no governmental prohibition of my own church advocating and practicing an “open and inclusive” policy. We aren’t the Sudan, after all, and I personally celebrate the opportunity that they may enjoy – despite my strong disagreement with their message – to teach what they call “Christianity” in whatever way they choose. Are “we” so weak and fearful, and so mistrusting of the workings of the Holy Spirit, that we must choose to judge God’s wisdom in allowing the Mars Hill Churches of our society to exist, to prosper? It seems to me that the sharp corners and hard edges of their “message” may in many cases teach “seekers” to look beyond that sort of “Christianity” and discover that the message of the Gospel is much richer and deeper than any “members-only” sign on their door might suggest. One of pastor David Hayward's cartoons (The NakedPastor) shows a church with a sign: "Welcome to First Church -- We Don't Discriminate If You're Like Us!" Does that somehow only apply to the Mars Hill empire?
“It seems to me that the sharp corners and hard edges of their “message” may in many cases teach “seekers” to look beyond that sort of “Christianity” and discover that the message of the Gospel is much richer and deeper than any “members-only” sign on their door might suggest?”
Deep thought, I’ll ponder that one for awhile. Thanks for adding your thoughts!
The problem is that many of us believe that we have the obligation to make sure those who disagree with us are not allowed to speak. I have the right to tell you that what you are preaching is not the word of God and that the life style you are living will not get you into the Kingdom of Heaven. I do not and can not stop you from what you are doing and you have no right to stop me from preaching my beliefs. On judgement day our Lord Jesus Christ will pass judgement ( only He will ) If you have been wrong and led people away from the Lord there will be a price to pay for eternity. Once you die there is no second chance. There are a couple of things I am sure of, one is that it is all about Him, Jesus Christ, it is not about me or you. If you continue to live a life of sin you do not have a relationship with our Lord. Satan is the great deceiver and he is leading a lot of people to eternity in the fire of hell by convincing them that God will allow you to be saved even if you live a life of sin, by going against His teachings. Don’t be misled God does not change His laws or commandments to fit what the world may want, those that believe that are in for an eternity of sorrow that we can’t even imagine. Read the 10 Commandments they count just as much today as they did the day Moses received them.
Hey, y’all, I get confused when I hear that God, or the Bible does not change. The canonical Bible I’ve read seems to change everytime it is reprinted or retranslated, even with the printing press, whichtended to make many copies of any one version, but did not prevent changes. Cannonization didn’t bring the changelessness that Rome wanted. Other versions that make use of many early gospels andother writingshave many changes, most very valuable, depending on our use of them. Even in the standard cannon, though, God seems to change all the time. The God who ordered Moses to deliver the Decalogue differs very much from the God of Mark, and both from the God of John. And then there is the difference between the fairly human Jesus of Mark and the philosophical Greek Logos Jesus of John. Neither dwell very much on the birth, but Matthew and Luke make the birth to be very important. The earlier Q gospel seems not to have mentioned it, nor anything about any resurrection or ascension. I guess our position on the changelessness or nature of the texts depends on our attitude about our ability to reason and our sufficiency to move toward the new world, i.e., our faith in Jesus and in ourselves. And our acceptance or rejection of the belief that God will do it without us, a notion that brings me close to disgust.
[…] What if Mars Hill takes over this building? By Jan Shannon. […]
When I think about this online conversation I am reminded that the new Testament was written to a mostly illiterate audience so it was written to be read aloud. This conversation we are sharing is basically that out-loud reading of scripture and a discussion thereof. Since I used to espouse the beliefs of a more conservative interpretation of scripture, it has taken me years to understand that it’s too easy to say, “The Bible says it” and be done with the learning. We were meant to wrestle with the teachings, as Peter and Paul’s “conversations” in the NT show us. It’s lazy to lie back and state, “I take the Bible literally” when you clearly don’t. (and I don’t think anyone does) It’s a very old book and we are a very young audience; there’s a lot of room for misunderstanding!
I cannot say that I welcome MHC to Spokane, because my fear keeps me from being welcoming to their message, but I can say welcome to the pastoral staff and wish them a happy home here in our town. I truly hope that the pastors will become involved in Spokane FAVs and add their voices to ours.
Well said!!!
Here’s a link to an article on the subject from USA Today.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2014/06/03/christianity-catholic-church-gay-homosexuals-column/9926489/
Leading new testament scholar N.T. Wright recently weighted in on the subject and said: “Monogamous, lifelong same-sex relationships were known in the ancient world as well as in the modern—there is plenty of evidence, despite what people sometimes say. When Jesus reaffirms the traditional Jewish standards of sexual behavior (he was talking in a Jews-only context where people would know what his shorthand sayings meant), and when Paul, speaking in a largely Gentile context, spells out a bit more clearly what is and what isn’t part of the new-creation lifestyle for those “in Christ,” this way of life was always counter-intuitive in that world, as it is again today.
But it’s important that we do not reduce the Bible to a collection of true doctrines and right ethics. There are plenty of true doctrines and right ethics there, of course, but they come within the larger thing, which is the story of how the Creator is rescuing and restoring the whole creation, with his rescue and restoration of humans at the heart of it. In other words, it isn’t about “do we allow this or that?” To ask the question that way is already to admit defeat, to think in terms of behavior as a set of quasi-arbitrary, and hence negotiable, rules.
We must ask, with Paul, “This new creation God has launched in Jesus—what does it look like, and how can we live well as genuine humans, as both a sign and a means of that renewal?” We need to remind ourselves that the entire biblical sexual ethic is deeply counter-intuitive. All human beings some of the time, and some human beings most of the time, have deep heartfelt longings for kinds of sexual intimacy or gratification (multiple partners, pornography, whatever) which do not reflect the creator’s best intentions for his human creatures, intentions through which new wisdom and flourishing will come to birth. Sexual restraint is mandatory for all, difficult for most, extremely challenging for some. God is gracious and merciful but this never means “so his creational standards don’t really matter after all.”
Also well said, Eric. My father-in-law tried to be intimate and flourishing with his wife, the mother of my wife, but failed, miserable and violently. When he came out and lived in an intimate 35 year long relationship with his “partner both flourished, as did, finally, his relationship with his daughter. Which was the ‘sinful” marriage?
Tom, I see bad come of good and good come of bad all the time, I generally try to avoid drawing conclusions from too many of those situations. I trust God to work out his plan in people’s lives while I try my best to offer love, support, wisdom and truth with the limited light I have. I wrestle with the ideal of scripture and the fallen reality of our lives. I work to help people live into the direction of God’s will as best revealed in scripture but, I try not to assume I know best how that all will be accomplished. I do think true is true, but so often I see God lead people into truth through a maze of madness and mercy that I would never of planned or imagine. I guess that’s why he’s still got the job and I don’t.
Nearly every religion has a code of behavior. Study all the requirements of Islam, for example. To say that Mars Hill Church doesn’t deserve to take over the old First Covenant Church building is akin to saying that Jews shouldn’t be allowed to move in. That is a bold anti-Christian statement that needs to be called out for what it is. No church should be excluded from moving into Spokane just because it doesn’t pander to the LGBTQ community. The LGBTQ people need to learn how to tolerate the fact that many people don’t care for their way of life. That’s just the way it is. That’s American, to be able to openly express an opinion without the fear of violence. In Portland the LGBTQ community broke windows in the new Mars Hill Church. That’s a lot like the Ku Klux Klan burning down black churches in the South.
It’s also a lot like you, mark, I suppose a straight person, telling LGBT people what they need to learn. That condensation soon becomes the soil for breaking windows. I hope you are above that, but it models poorly for some other less morally developed and more violence prone.
You wrote: ” To say that Mars Hill Church doesn’t deserve to take over the old First Covenant Church building is akin to saying that Jews shouldn’t be allowed to move in. That is a bold anti-Christian statement that needs to be called out for what it is. No church should be excluded from moving into Spokane just because it doesn’t pander to the LGBTQ community.”
No one said that MHC shouldn’t be allowed here. No one is excluding MHC from Spokane. In fact, the opposite was said. Conflagrating the argument and misstating the article are not beneficial to the conversation.
Yeah, I must has misunderstood this statement. Clearly it’s a welcome to Mars Hill Church to move into the old First Covenant Church building.
“And the chain link fence spoke to me of the chains that Mars Hill puts on their ‘gospel.’ It’s not good news, not the way they preach it. It’s chains on people’s hearts and locks on the door of heaven for anyone who doesn’t fit their doctrinal model.”
Jan you need to sit down and read your Bible the hate coming from you does not originate from Christ, but you need to find out how to get rid of it. Nothing you have said sounds Christ like.
Jan isn’t a hateful person in fact she has changed wording in this article in response to healthy dialouge. Stick to the issues and don’t make this personal. Share your perspective but do it in a way that is is respectful. Jan is our friend and deserves to be treated with kindness even if you disagree with her on these issues.
My comment was not to hurt it was to inform. To the small community of LBGT it may seem appropriate but to many other Christians it does not. One of Satan’s greatest triumphs is to get people who believe in God to war among themselves then he has the opportunity to divide and conquer. My daughter is gay and believes Jesus Christ is her Savior. We disagree on whether being gay is against God’s Law or not. Neither of us is going to change our opinions, and I am still going to tell her what I believe is the truth. She is my baby, I gave her away at her wedding (gay) last year and couldn’t be prouder of her. We have decided that judgement comes only from Jesus Christ and no one else. If you want to have a LBGT church that is your choice and no one has a right to stop you. If Mars Hill wants to come to Spokane and preach the Gospel as they believe it to be, then they have that right also. It does not boost the LBGT cause of inclusion when they actively and aggressively tried to stop and destroy anyone who disagrees with them that is not Christ like and it definitely does not promote a loving situation, it promotes fear, intimidation and develops a deep resentment towards your message that you are believers, when you do the exact things that you accuse others of doing.
May the Lord Bless you and may you be successful in obtaining eternal life with God.
[…] the online (Facebook & SpokaneFAVS) dialogue sparked by Jan Shannon’s SpokaneFAVS article: “What if Mars Hill takes over this building?“ In the Facebook dialogue Jan wrote and asked me: ‘Keep my decrees.’ […]
[…] This is part one of a three part series, I committed to write as a result of the online (Facebook & SpokaneFAVS) dialogue sparked by Jan Shannon’s SpokaneFAVS article: “What if Mars Hill takes over this building?“ […]
I agree with Eric. Jan is asking questions and inviting dialogue, and that’s OK.